Customer Success Starts Before Support

Partners, Not Vendors.

Strong Customer Relationships Don't Happen by Accident

Every business wants satisfied customers, but lasting success comes from more than resolving support tickets when problems arise. It comes from understanding customer goals, building trusted relationships, and proactively helping organizations improve over time.

In the third episode of Sips & Software, host Jamie Hollinger welcomes back Michelle Sawyer, Senior Manager of Client Success at Karmak, for a conversation about what client success really means and why proactive partnerships create better business outcomes.

Together, they explore how client success differs from traditional customer support, how data and industry expertise help identify opportunities for improvement, and why helping customers succeed extends far beyond software implementation.

What You'll Learn in This Episode

• The difference between client success and customer support
• Why proactive customer partnerships create better long-term outcomes
• How data helps identify opportunities for continuous improvement
• Helping organizations maximize the value of their technology investment
• Why customer success begins long before a support request

Customer Success Is More Than Customer Support

Support is an essential part of any software company, but it's only one piece of the customer experience.

Michelle explains that customer support is primarily reactive. When a customer encounters an issue, has a question, or needs technical assistance, support teams help resolve that immediate challenge.

Client success takes a different approach.

Rather than waiting for problems to arise, client success focuses on understanding each customer's business goals, identifying opportunities for improvement, and helping organizations get more value from the technology they already have. It's about creating an ongoing partnership that evolves alongside the customer's business.

Helping Customers Move Forward

Every organization is different.

Some customers are new to their business management system, while others have relied on it for years. Regardless of where they are in their journey, there are always opportunities to improve workflows, increase efficiency, and better support employees.

Throughout the conversation, Michelle explains how the Client Success team works closely with customers to understand their unique challenges rather than applying the same recommendations to every organization.

Sometimes that means identifying training opportunities. Other times it involves improving workflows, introducing existing functionality customers may not realize they already have, or helping prepare for future growth.

The goal isn't simply to solve today's problem. It's to help customers continue improving tomorrow.

Turning Data Into Better Decisions

One of the most valuable tools available to a Client Success team is data.

Rather than relying on assumptions, the team reviews customer interactions, support trends, product usage, and other operational insights to better understand where customers may benefit from additional guidance.

Michelle explains that these insights help create a more complete picture of each customer, allowing the team to proactively identify opportunities before small challenges become larger issues.

By combining analytics with industry experience, customer conversations become more strategic, personalized, and focused on long-term success.

Building Partnerships That Last

Perhaps the biggest takeaway from the episode is that successful customer relationships are built on partnership.

Jamie and Michelle discuss the importance of listening to customers, understanding their goals, and maintaining relationships that extend well beyond implementation or day-to-day support.

Throughout the commercial transportation industry, organizations continue evolving as new technologies, changing workflows, and growing customer expectations reshape the way they operate.

A strong client success partnership helps businesses navigate those changes with confidence while continuing to improve operational performance and deliver exceptional service to their own customers.

Continuous Improvement Never Stops

No business reaches a point where improvement is finished.

Whether onboarding new employees, expanding service operations, introducing mobile workflows, or refining existing processes, every organization has opportunities to continue growing.

As Michelle explains, client success isn't about selling additional products. It's about helping customers understand what's possible, making better use of the tools available to them, and providing the guidance needed to achieve their long-term goals.

That's what transforms a vendor relationship into a true partnership.

Key Takeaways

• Client success focuses on proactive partnership rather than reactive problem solving.
• Customer support resolves issues, while client success helps customers maximize long-term value.
• Data and customer insights help identify opportunities for continuous improvement.
• Every customer has unique goals, requiring personalized guidance and recommendations.
• Strong partnerships help organizations adapt, grow, and achieve lasting success.

Explore the Podcast

Browse every episode of Sips & Software and discover conversations exploring leadership, technology, customer success, and the commercial transportation industry.

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Frequently Asked Questions

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What is customer success?

Customer success is a proactive approach focused on helping customers achieve their business goals through ongoing guidance, strategic partnerships, and continuous improvement.

How is customer success different from customer support?

Customer support typically responds to issues after they occur, while customer success works proactively with customers to improve adoption, optimize processes, and identify opportunities for long-term success.

Why is customer success important?

Strong customer success programs help organizations maximize technology investments, improve operational efficiency, strengthen customer relationships, and support long-term business growth.

How does Karmak approach customer success?

Karmak's Client Success team partners with customers throughout their journey by providing strategic guidance, sharing best practices, reviewing operational performance, and helping customers achieve their business objectives.

Where can I listen to more Sips & Software episodes?

Additional episodes are available on the Karmak website, YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and Amazon Music.

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Episode Transcript

Jamie Hollinger (00:00)
Welcome to the third episode of Sips and Software Podcast, powered by Karmak and the heavy duty trucking industry, with me, Jamie, as your host. Today I am bringing back Michelle Sawyer. She joined me for the very first episode. She is our senior manager of client success here at Karmak and we are going to get deep into their team and how they take care of our customers. we'll talk about what they're doing and what they're responsible for here at Karmak and hopefully.

Get you thinking about how your company handles your customers' success. It has to be top of mind.

Jamie Hollinger (00:52)
Michelle, how are you?

Michelle Sawyer (00:55)
I'm doing fantastic. Thank you for having me again. Yes.

Jamie Hollinger (00:58)
I'm so excited that you're joining me. So today we've got some good content that I'm excited to talk about. But before we get into that, what are you drinking? What's in your cup?

Michelle Sawyer (01:09)
I have tea today, if you can believe it. Yes, I said I love coffee, but I decided to break up the monotony and go with tea today.

Jamie Hollinger (01:19)
Good for you. Do you have a specialty that you like? Is it does it have caffeine at least in it, hopefully?

Michelle Sawyer (01:26)
This is just a chamomile, so I think it's gonna do nothing but put me to bed in a little bit.

Jamie Hollinger (01:31)
Well, we don't want that.

Michelle Sawyer (01:34)
It's all good. It smells delicious is is what caught me  as I was going through the kitchen.

Jamie Hollinger (01:40)
Love it. Yep.  I am back to my same coffee with my same creamer. I know I almost did the black coffee but I just couldn't do it. But I'm gonna set a personal goal and by the end of the month, I'm maybe by our next episode I will drink the black coffee.

Michelle Sawyer (01:56)
Yeah. Well, and I think that was my goal, is that you had mentioned you drink tea, you drink coffee, and I thought,  for this podcast, I'm gonna switch it up. I'm gonna do tea. Tea is in my cup.

Jamie Hollinger (02:06)
We're both inspiring each other. Yes, I love it. And then what so what fills your cup?  I know last time I said a staycation, like I wanted to just stay home because we've been on the go so much. so for me it's kind of the same thing. Like I just self care, right? I just want to take care of myself and my family and not be so chauffeur running around crazy, you know, there's always something going on. So what about you though? Like we're

Michelle Sawyer (02:08)
We are. Thank you.

Jamie Hollinger (02:36)
Where are you trying to focus this week for yourself? What are you doing for Michelle?

Michelle Sawyer (02:40)
So this week  I am focusing on just  you know,  staying active, going on walks. But you know, my my main focus, what I do to get up every morning is just to make sure that I know exactly what is happening with my family. So I mentioned before that my parents and my kids and my husband are my North Star. You know, when I when I look at our parents, you know, those are things that

you know, as you get older, the the changing of the guards is happening, right? So I'm just making sure that my parents stay healthy and stay with us as long as they can. And then obviously my kids making sure that they are doing very well. So they are still my North Star. They will always be.

Jamie Hollinger (03:27)
That is great. And hopefully you can take your time off that you deserve and spend time with your family because that's the ba the best way to fill your cup when it comes to family is just I think just one on one time and and being with them. So that's wonderful. Yes.  so speaking of North Star, great segue. We actually did not plan that. at Karmak you know, part of our culture is making our customers our North Star. Like what can we do to make sure

our customers see us as a partner and just not a vendor of theirs. and we're contributing to their success. So since Michelle, you are the  the senior manager of client success here at Karmak I thought you could start us off a little bit about talking about that. Like what so you manage, tell us what your role is and with your team specifically. So you manage the client success team and what do they do?

Michelle Sawyer (04:21)
Yeah, so the client success team is really  all about focusing on our customers, making sure that we understand what their goals are, aligning them to  not just products, not just features, but how we can help move the needle for a customer, right? So  I I am always  trying to  make sure that our team is able to

Talk to our customers and let them know, hey, here's what Karmak is doing  current, and then what's on the roadmap, what's coming up next. And then what we find a lot of times is customers will will say, Hey, I didn't know that Fusion can do X, Y, or Z. My team is very good at filling in some of those holes. You know, what we want to do  is change how we perceive client success  in the future.

Jamie Hollinger (05:16)
So when you s talk about client success, can you talk a little bit about like what's the difference between client success and customer support? Because, you know, I s being one of the Salesforce admins, we have multiple vendors that we work with from an integration standpoint with our CRM. And, you know, some of them have a client success, like an AE or some type of person I can reach out to on a different level, but but all of them have customer support. So can you talk about that a little bit? Like what's the difference between Karmak's customer support versus the client success team.

Michelle Sawyer (05:49)
That is such a great question because there is such a big misconception of what client success does. So, you know, customer support is very reactive. There's something that is happening on the screen. there's a message, there's a process that's not working exactly how you want it. That's what you want to reach out to our customer support. And then, of course, we have  our professional services team, which is taking those customers to the next level. And they're very project-based.

client success is really about moving  that customer forward. What do we need to do to be more proactive for that customer?  making sure that they're getting the the  the value out of fusion, out of Karmak,  setting the pace for what their goals are going to be and hopefully preventing some issues from becoming bigger challenges for us. So, really what we want to do is improve that partnership. It's a long-term partnership. and we want to make sure that we are doing that as best as we can.

Jamie Hollinger (06:51)
So when you talk about the partnership, like what do you guys physically bring to the table? So you're walk let's just talk through a scenario. So you have a dealership out on the West Coast. Go California. I used to live there. you do. That was not planned either.  so let's just say you have a dealership out on the West Coast and they're reaching out to customer support support often and they're

Michelle Sawyer (07:07)
That's where I'm from.

Jamie Hollinger (07:19)
showing signs that they're struggling and we notice at Karmak that they need an extra layer of, you know, assistance or direction or attention.  I'm not gonna specifically say what vendor, but we do have a vendor where it always feels like they're just trying to like sell us more. Like, okay, what you have this problem, well why don't you upgrade and do this and it will solve your problem. Like we don't want to do that. I'm sure there are times that we have done that and put out a product or a solution that would give them the right

direction that they need to go with it. But like what do you guys do that's not always just selling another product, but what do you guys do for our customers that help, you know, get them in a better spot?

Michelle Sawyer (07:59)
Yeah. And so for for me and and my team, it is important to have our ears to the ground, right? So understanding what their current challenge is for a customer. So we walk in the door, we might  notice that, you know, the process and service department may not be exactly how it's the most efficient, productive for the team.  we can see that. The other is really because we have been in the industry for 45 plus years.

Obviously, we have a lot of knowledge of how things function. If you're a warehouse distributor, a dealership, a leasing company, and you've just been on board it to fusion, let's say nine months ago, your number one goal is just to make sure that you can close business every single day and be able to do that. What we want to do is open up that door and say, okay, what is next for  that customer to

be much more productive, bring up their margins. And that is what our team is going to do. They are going to bring value to the customer to showcase what they can do next. So since we have a lot of tools in our tool belt, we're able to kind of look at the various different functions and processes or workflows within a company to say, here's where you can go next. And that's really what we want to do is get them to that next level.

Doesn't matter if you've been with us for nine months or 15 years, you want to get to that next level all the time. And that's what the goal is here.

Jamie Hollinger (09:34)
So how do you how do you identify the ones that need to get to the next level? Like how how at Karmak and within in your team, how do you guys know these are the accounts or these are the ones that we need to focus on? They need our support, they need our help.

Michelle Sawyer (09:47)
Absolutely. So that's a great question because what we want to do is not just look at, hey, we're walking in the door and we're asking, how are you doing? That that's not very that's being reactive. What we want to do is look at holistically who's calling in, what are they calling in for? Do we see any trends that are happening with that customer? You know, a lot of times we'll get  a customer that will say, Hey, we don't need to have a quarterly business review.

And it's mostly because they feel like everything is working perfectly.  if perfect was was was  an option, we wouldn't need client success. It is is not realistic. And so for me, we always can find ways to fine-tune a customer.  and that's just us holding that that customer's hand and getting them to that next level. We want to make sure that we are providing them the service that they deserve.

the support that they need and the knowledge to move forward. That's what client success is going to do. And so we use tools that we have available with our CRM. We're able to see how many times they're calling in to support. Is it a specific area? We can also look to see, you know, what ideas has this customer  sent in to our product team and have a voice for them.

when it comes to our support teams, our product team, and our professional services team. So we want to make sure that we are able to reach out to all of these different departments and really put them forward. So if we see a trend in the industry, we wanna be able to bring that to the table so that everybody knows that we're here to help them move forward.

Jamie Hollinger (11:29)
That's great. Yeah, I'm I'm sure it makes our customers feel  like we have their back, you know, that we we're there to support them, which is awesome. So whenever you walk into these businesses and do you actually use data? So you I know you said support cases and you look at you know, any time that they're calling in, what the topics are, but like what other data do you guys look at?

Michelle Sawyer (11:52)
So there is so much information. You know, we don't want to look at it as a red, green, or yellow status of that customer's health. We want to use analytics to kind of help tell that story. So building up a  success profile per customer because we want them to be unique. You know, we get a lot of customers that will say we're a we're a truck dealership and the warehouse distributor  is completely different.

So we want to have metrics that help tell that story between the customers and not only just look at their dollars that they're spending or their subscription and how many locations that they have, because every customer of ours is important. it doesn't matter if you are you know, a mom and pop repair shop to a heavy-duty truck dealership. we want you to have that same experience, but be able to see exactly what you need.

To move the needle forward.

Jamie Hollinger (12:50)
When you talk about moving the needle forward with them, like give us some ex give us some examples. And we also have a professional services team. Now, I know I said earlier we don't want to always throw products, but sometimes you do need that extra layer that can get deep into the weeds of more of a huge project with a customer. So we don't have to go there. You could talk about the difference a little bit if you want, but just focusing strictly on the client success team, like what are some things that you're

customers see that when when you guys leave they feel better about the relationship.

Michelle Sawyer (13:25)
Yeah, so it could be as simple as I have a new employee. We don't know what to do, how to get them on board it quickly.  we have  our Karmak aKademy which is our e-learning platform, allows new employees to be onboarded quickly. Some people think that this  e-learning environment is only utilized when they're first coming onto Karmak.

We want to make sure that you know that this is always something that can be utilized as a, you know, employee  retention. You want to be able to say, I have everybody up to speed. As you're growing your business, we're here to partner. And yes, you can then look at additional training or you can look at professional services.  we want to make sure that you are are doing great.

And bringing  we're bringing value to you on what Karmak has available. the one thing that I will say that my team  does very well is really trying to understand what your challenges are, right? So it's not about what everybody in the industry is is dealing with, which we want to know that as well, specifically what does it help with a customer? So

I was just on site last week with a customer, and one of the things that they are looking to improve is their overall mobile trucks that they have. Understanding how we can move that needle, how we can put a workflow together on creating that repair, assigning it to a technician,  having that technician clock on, how do you close the repair order? It seems basic.

But it is things that get missed as you are just continuing to grow. You might miss a step because you're looking for  shortcuts. Everybody everywhere is always looking for a shortcut. And that doesn't mean it's right. It just you need to go through a flow that works for you and your company.

Jamie Hollinger (15:28)
Yeah, it everyone wants to do things faster and quicker and they can, right? There's so much out there that's allowing us to do that, which is wild. Yes. That's probably a whole nother topic or episode. So when you mentioned mobile trucks, that's one thing I've noticed is how many of our customers are they're they're expanding from a mobile truck standpoint. So do you guys treat the mobile truck customers of ours the same or how do you visit them or how do you make sure that those locations are taken care of?

Michelle Sawyer (15:57)
Yeah, you know, that's a fantastic question. You know, our industry moves in different directions depending on where we are in life, right? And right now, mobilizing the service department is probably one of the biggest industry changes that I have seen in the last couple of years. More customers have mobile trucks to go visit their customers. So we have been enhancing tools within Karmak to adopt and adapt to those changes.

But yes, the mobile trucks are are going in a in a very high direction. It's peaking, but most of our customers, that is where they're going. And that's what we see. So typically, if I'm in front of a customer and they're talking about service, you know, I'll I'll sometimes ask them, you know, hey, do you have mobile trucks? They we typically know that they do. But if they're starting to build up or they're not sure what they're doing with their mobile trucks, they'll start very small.

And that's where we are here to help. At client success, we want to be able to say, here is what our industry is doing, right? We're bringing that knowledge. we understand what the changes are,  and then help them and guide them to be successful in that new area. So that is one area of expertise that we bring to the table. But we want to look at, you know, everyone is always finding  new ways to help their business.

And we want to make sure we connect with them and we are there to partner with them to get through that.

Jamie Hollinger (17:30)
Yeah, that's great.  so tell me something fun. I know I said in my very first episode, I want to have some fun. So, like what do you have any funny customer stories or any success stories? I know I threw this at you. I was not planning to ask you this, but give me something fun. Like, what what do you love about our customers and what's a good story?

Michelle Sawyer (17:53)
You know,  that I love that question. And mostly because we are very connected to our customers. They're not a number.  you know, we're we're a  employee-owned company. So when we connect with customers, it is so great. You know,  a partnership works two ways, right? It's a two-way conversation.  but it is great to just be able to pick up the phone, call a customer, ask them a question because no different than they're calling us about how.

the industry is is functioning, we want to do that same thing with our customers. And so  you know, I will say that  my travels have taken me everywhere in the United States and north of the border.  and every one of our customers, when you know them  by name  and you have their their phone numbers, that's when you know you've made that connection. And I have a lot of customer phone numbers in my cell phone

they'll text, they'll call, and it's, you know, it could be a, I have a challenge or hey, I have a question for you, or can you help me find X?  we want to make sure that we're doing that. You know, we're in a unique  in a in a unique business where our industry is very small. Everybody knows everybody, but the biggest thing is making that connection is what's key.

and so I love that about our customers. I have a lot of funny stories, but I'll hold some of those back for another time.  but really it's just being able to connect one on one with the individuals is what is it's meaningful.

Jamie Hollinger (19:30)
Yeah, that's awesome. I don't get a chance to connect with customers and partners very often. Really, it's just at our annual users conference, which it's so fun. It's just so nice to be able to to talk to our customers and to listen. They have they have so much to tell you and to talk about if you just listen, you know. So,  and how many years have you been at Karmak again?

Michelle Sawyer (19:52)
I will  in November will be twenty nine years.

Jamie Hollinger (19:56)
Twenty nine years. So your phone has a lot twenty nine years worth of customer

Michelle Sawyer (20:01)
My phone number has been the same for 29 years. So yes, it does have a lot of phone numbers in there. So that's awesome. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And you are right that if we're looking at the  Karmak conference, that's where a lot of people get to connect with employees that they don't normally connect with.  but I do know that you know a lot of customers. I'm gonna give a couple shout-outs here just because there are fun ones. So we have Chris Naylor  out at Nextran. We have

Drew at Weir's, Michael Waters from Waters Truck. I mean, there are just endless of of  customers that are they're just amazing. And you can pick up the phone and just step into their shoes and vice versa and break bread with them, which is fantastic. I love that.

Jamie Hollinger (20:49)
Yeah, me too. So my goal actually was this would be super fun, Michelle, because I do want to interview some customers. I think that someone that you listed would be perfect candidates,  or there's a ton others.  but we we need to get these customers of ours on the f on the phone. I'm not on a phone. On the podcast. We need to interview and really, you know, steal some of their knowledge of the industry and and what they're seeing at their dealerships or their service shops and

And share their knowledge. I think that would be great. And we can go on site. We don't have to do it remotely, I don't think. We could do it remotely or we could go on site and have a a cool podcast interview.

Michelle Sawyer (21:30)
I think that would be fantastic. You know,  we have a lot of industry knowledge within  Karmak, but the reason why we have that is because of our amazing customers that we have. So they're there are, as we always talk about our true north, they're the ones that are gonna tell us, you know, here's the direction the industry is going, and it's our job to listen. Yeah. So having them on the podcast would be so fantastic because I'm sure that they have some.

great stories to tell about their customers and their partners as well. and how it they're using tools today  to help them in their everyday business. So yeah, I think that would be fantastic. I love the idea. Okay.

Jamie Hollinger (22:12)
So it is unfortunately time to hit the road. Michelle, thank you so much for joining me again. I know we will see you multiple times down the road. You can count on it.  but yes, you are welcome back anytime. And I will be asking you to join me multiple times, I'm sure. So thank you again.  thank you to our listeners, to everyone out there if you're on the road, in the office, at home. We appreciate you listening for the next episode. Make sure you bring your favorite drink of choice.

keep connecting, keep learning, and don't ever let your cup run empty. Okay. Cheers.

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